Pedaltrain, Michael Mann, & ’60′s Guitar Tone

So…here’s some stuff. Also, every person who comments in this thread is automatically entered into a drawing for a free Herdim pick that ‘may’ or ‘may not’ have been played by The Edge. (Hey…you don’t know!)

  • Got everyone clapping on the 1 and the 3 again. Never felt more white.
  • Collateral may be the most underrated film of all-time. That’s ‘Collateral’, not ‘Collateral Damage.’
  • Open Range is definitely not the most underrated films of all-time. Mr. Costner has such an unfortunate time of delivering his lines in that movie. However, it is also one of my guilty pleasure movies. Like Tremors.
  • Anyone else hate the Pedaltrain’s?
  • Even pitch itself is tension and vibration causing air to move. Please don’t take that away from your sound.
  • This was brought back to me in full force as I was recording, had headphones on, and was tuning. I turned my head and the headphone cord went taut, caught beneath the guitar. Their was no signal because of the tuning, but the vibration from me hitting the string traveled up to headphone cord and into my neck. I felt the D note. Please try this because it’s awesome.
  • A few days ago, the power cord to my amp went out. I was getting a crackling sound at random times and couldn’t figure it out. It was the stupid $5 power cord. Always check everything! And as guitarists, we have to check…absolutely everything.
  • Who is Marc Antony, besides being the only one pleased with his jokes at the Grammy’s? Can literally just anyone present now? Because I would like to.
  • Also, John Mayer and Keith Urban played together. The world was changed forever.
  • C-Lo (these names are out of control) and Gwyneth Paltrow also played together. The world stayed the same.
  • The puppets may have made it a little bit worse, though…and frightening. I know I slept with the light on that night.
  • I have a Loooper that I have no use for. However, I want to keep it because it looks amazing.
  • John 13:35 is very good. I am not.
  • Having a current musical love affair with the upfront, you’re-in-the-room-with-them, recorded tone and recording techniques of the ’60′s. Compressors are the death of life.
  • ‘Life’, meaning ‘music’, ‘music’ meaning ‘guitar tone’, and ‘guitar tone’ meaning ‘delay.’ I don’t think I should have to explain myself.
  • And yes, Jimmy Page used delay.
  • Also, his fingers, head, heart, and soul. As well as possibly some not-quite-over-the-counter-pharmaceuticals, but since I don’t think he gets the same tone now that he’s a sober and responsible citizen, we’ll give him the benefit of a doubt. ;)
  • I keep getting the feeling that I’m not taking Jesus’ words seriously enough. Written language is far too easy to make mean whatever meaning justifies your most comfortable or most preferred way of life. This is not directed at anyone but myself.
  • Boss pedals just work.
  • But so do Diamond. ;)

Splendid.
Karl.

125 thoughts on “Pedaltrain, Michael Mann, & ’60′s Guitar Tone

  1. you probably already know this living in southern California and all, but Latin churches always clap on 1 and 3. Its very hard to get used to at first.

    • For real? haha…that is funny! And the other night, something weird happend… I was playing my guitar and the electric currents somehow came shooting through my arm? Weird! Didn’t hurt or anything…just felt weird.

  2. Sorry, but I absolutely love my pedaltrains. Both the PT-2 and the PT-Pro. But John Mayer and Keith Urban together? I missed that… Maybe they were waiting on the world to change, but i bet it was a sweet thing…. :D

    • Oh, and the whole taut headphone cable rubs up against guitar neck so that you feel the note you’re playing is awesome… I do that at night sometimes

  3. Random comment to win the free pick!
    I’m seeing U2 in June when they’re in Seattle; maybe I can get him to sign it!

    Also, how can Tremors be a guilty pleasure? It’s so terribly wonderful! (or is that wonderfully terrible?)

    Karl, I love your blog & get excited when I see a new post. Thanks for the thoughts, advice, and general tomfoolery.

  4. Dan W–which is cool! :) Unfortunately, this was on Blessed Be Your Name, and that song is just one clap away from going from U2 to hillbilly. ;) hehe

    Nate–lol Nice. Ya, it was pretty cool. And you’ve done the headphone thing? That’s awesome!!

    Man, I just can’t stand the layout of the Pedaltrain’s. There’s nowhere to put the extra cable, except under the board like they were designed to do. But then to keep the cables from getting pinched, I have to zip tie them up. But I rearrange so often, it just ends up being a headache. I have a strong feeling mine will be up for sale very soon. Ya know, just in case you need a 3rd and 4th. hehe

    • Use Pedaltrain too. Like them pretty well because you can mount a Pedal Power or two under them. Use the velcro zip tie things made for cables for the under-the-board spaghetti pile.

      Watch “Crossroads” on CMT for a full hour of Urban/Mayer. It actually works very well.

    • I can understand that. if you re-arrange often it can be annoying to have to run wires and such. What I’ve done with mine is set up semi-permanent positions and just change out pedals to these positions, so that the re-wiring and such is pretty minimal. I’ve been doing this for a few months now and have been able to swap out several different pedals of varying sizes and stuff. It just requires being well thought through first. And if you have a ton of pedals of drastically differing sizes that you want to change often (as I’m presuming by your collection that you do), it may not work as well… :D

  5. Dan–haha Thanks, bro! And consider yourself entered for the pick. You may have an extra advantage, seeing as you like Tremors. hehe :D

    Phillip–lol Best comment ever. Oh, and your facebook Ringo thing was classic.

  6. i promise this is related to the topic … I am selling my Brigadier (with Fav) if anybody is interested … here’s how it’s related: I sent my Diamond MLN1 for a dotted-8th mod and I am going back to that. see, related to your last point. Diamond works!!!

  7. i dont know if that pick will be the pick of destiny or not, but trying it won’t hurt.

    also, I am interested in getting a pedal train but they are pricey. The one I have now is going to break in half any day now though…i know it.

  8. I always clap/tap my foot on the one and 3 (unless I clap/tap on the 1, 2, 3 and 4). I blame it on the Ska I listen too as a teenager.

  9. I have more dead Boss pedals then live ones. My secret yearnings to be a genius pedal builder turned into many burnt and destroyed projects built into mostly SD1 and DS1 shells. To cheap to buy the “mojo/tone injected” 3pdt switches and fancy Hammond boxes. But, I have a TU2 and a old SD2 Dual OD that I love. it brings the sludge and sometimes the beeeeezzzz.

    I’m also secretly a cowboy, so Open Range is a fine piece of film. Costner is not a cowboy.

  10. Gtr1ab–zero actually! Unforgivable, I know! haha

    Rhoy–ooh, that might be tempting!

    Cam–oh ya! I remember that now. Great stuff, and thanks for the link! World-changing for sure.

    Jared–I got my little one used for $100. Not too bad, but ya, you could buy 2 and a half Arion’s for that. hehe

    Sam–Supertones Strike Back.

    Matthew–haha I’ve killed a couple pedals, too!! Burnt up the circuit boards. hehe

    Bryan–haha Awesome!

    Caleb–lol Best ever.

  11. We love to hide in the comfort of our lives. If Christians lived the way we were called to… there would be no doubt who the King is. I find myself praying for hope when I can live that out, but choose to believe that my faith and my comfort are the same thing.

  12. I got to see U2 live here in South Africa at Soccer City last Sunday. It. Was. Awesome.

    By it, I mean The Edge’s tone. It. Was. Awesome. I was just off axis of his amps right in front in the Red Zone. Awesome.

    The show was good too. :) The only thing this has to do with your post it everything. Edge = Tone. Tone = well, everything.

  13. In Before The Lock … oops wrong site, thought I was at TGP.

    Totally agree on Page. He is different now, but I have no problem with that. His riffs still hold up after all these years. Amazing collection of chops.

  14. haha i agree pedal trainSUCKS just got my pro it was bent my pedals didnt lay flat andd it didnt set on the floor right took half hour to get it right with bender it and jumping on it(sounds good for it right!)
    …and i have done the headphone thing not in ages but when i first started playing i used to play along to my ipod and i figured it out when the headphone cord touched i though it was awesome(which it is)
    ..and hey you interested in selling that extra looper(so that my board can look cooler! and work better ) haha

  15. Collateral ROCKS!! It’s an easy calculation to make, really;

    Brilliant x Genius=Heat

    Michael Mann wrote and directed Heat;

    Michael Mann wrote and directed Collateral;

    Now, we know when looking at Michael Mann, the following equations should always be incorporated into your calculation:

    ((Michael+Mann) x Wrote=Genius) + ((Michael+Mann) x Directed=Brilliance)

    Therefore if Heat=Brilliant Genius, then Collateral also = Brilliant Genius.

    Anyone who disagrees with the math, I advise you to recheck your equations to tally with the answer above.

    p.s. Pick me!

  16. Post for pick! And have you looked into trailer trash pedal boards? Not too unreasonably priced unless you go over the top with say a glow top (although the thought of having a blue lit pedal board crosses my mind pretty much every time I look at my board haha). But the board is solid and comes with a shock mounted ata case. Oh also, my Tim came in yesterday and wow! Really makes my guitar and amp sing. Lovin it.

  17. 1+ on the trailer trash boards. I’ve heard a lot of great stuff about them. Random side note, Jimmy page is actually scientist right now and he has been working on pre-20th century 3D images for over 15 years. Weird right?

  18. Great. Now that I’ve seen Mayer and Urban playing together, I have to go recruit another lead player. Why is it that I can’t enjoy a good performance without getting an inferiority complex? Oh yeah, it’s that sinful nature thing I have going on…

  19. Would the shipping cost more than the pick is worth? Regardless, put me in the drawing. :)

    John & Keith were great. Now if Keith could just figure out a way to keep John from talking so much. He really says a lot of ridiculous things.

  20. Haha! @ Boss pedals don’t work…

    I really do not like Boss at all! :) I like the delays, but that is it. No exceptions. I don’t know about you, but it sounds almost like a fake, digital sound to me… Not pure.

    Any other thoughts? haha…this could be good! :)

  21. What’s wrong with the pedaltrains, now? tempting b/c of power placement underneath and the light, aluminum frame. Help me out here, folks, before I drop 2benjamins on it.

    • I made my own… check it out on my site, but I made it for rougly $15. I did get an incredible deal on the thick wood though…so it might be more. I would not get the pedaltrain. It is much better to build your own and buy/build a case for it…

          • that’s the third good review i’ve heard. I mean, how can you beat the price? just making sure I get the right size, now. do you keep all pedals on ‘same level’ or do you raise yours at all? (I think the real question i’m asking is “can I put the back row on a small riser, and the case still close?”)

          • I guess it would depend on the model. The one I got came with an angled platform to mount pedals on.

  22. Kevin Costner does not act, he just says lines. If you’ll notice he plays every role the exact same way: Hello, I’m Bull Durham; Hello, I’m Robin Hood; Hello, I’m Dances with Wolves Guy. Sorry, Kevin Costner rant of the day…

    Once in practice I lost all sound out of my amp, the band did not stop and I had the amp torn to pieces by the end of the song only to realize that one of my 9v batteries in a pedal had died. Always check the simple things first.

    Is is me or is John Mayer 7 feet tall; or is Keith Urban 5 feet tall?

    I agree, Boss pedals do work

    …and my last thought, I wish I had told as many people about Jesus as I have told about the great donuts you can get at a local Shop Rite Supermarket.

  23. haha Hmm, looks like I will actually have to send out a pick! Didn’t expect that. Maybe I’ll throw in another prize just to make it worth it. Like, 2 picks. ;)

    As for the Pedaltrains, I think they’re a great idea…light, workable, you can tuck the cables under them, etc. Just for me, I rearrange so often that it’s impractical to tie down the cables underneath it, so I end up just weaving them on top like a normal board, but now I’ve got all these holes to deal with. On top of that, my Timeline adapter won’t stay velcro’d on the bottom. Bottom line is that they are awesome and I hate them. :)

  24. DD20 for swells is 60 bpm, quarter notes, and tape delay. Level all the way up or almost all the way up, repeats at about 3 o’clock, and tone rolled back to about 10 or 11 o’clock.

    On the RV600 for shimmer, it’s on the setting for shimmer (I forget what it’s called right now but of course you know it when you hear it, hehe), with the mix all the way up because I have it in a parallel mixer, tone rolled way down to about 9 o’clock, decay between 1 and 2 o’clock, and time between 10 and 11 o’clock.

  25. In the defense of pedaltrain, they’re really functional. Especially if you don’t have a bypass looper and don’t want your patch cables being in the way. Just patch everything underneath the board. I do that… Haha.
    Hey random- how come I can’t find a D13 Joyride like… anywhere??

  26. i havent checked this chain in a while, wow. a lot of people want that edge pick.

    karl – years ago, in high school, I had a pedal board with almost the entire line of arion pedals. The arion’s were all $15-20 bucks back then, they were awesome! Then all my gear got stolen out of my car after church one day, arion discontinued the pedals, and I stopped looking. Now that you talk about them all the time, I really miss that pedal board, but just to get a chorus or something its almost $50 on some pages i’ve seen. its ridiculous!


  27. Jared:

    i havent checked this chain in a while, wow. a lot of people want that edge pick.
    karl – years ago, in high school, I had a pedal board with almost the entire line of arion pedals. The arion’s were all $15-20 bucks back then, they were awesome! Then all my gear got stolen out of my car after church one day, arion discontinued the pedals, and I stopped looking. Now that you talk about them all the time, I really miss that pedal board, but just to get a chorus or something its almost $50 on some pages i’ve seen. its ridiculous!

    It’s not ridiculous, it’s vintage.

  28. Jared–it’s ’cause all the companies started making things cheaper and sounding worse…so all the old stuff gets more valuable. Those Arion pedals (the old ones) sound great. Wish you still had that board!

    Brandon–that’s why you buy boutique, because no one will no what it is anyway, and hence won’t steal it. ;) hehehe

    Sam–mmm…vintage.

    Patrick–definitely stoked for it. :)

    • Haha! If you have the $$$ to drop on the boutiques…

      I might just be hating on Boss, but am I the only one who thinks their stuff (besides the delays) that sound digitally fake?

      *That’s the only way I know how to describe it…btw- this ts9 is so amazing!

    • Yeah, i definitely wish I had that board. I had it locked up while I carried in my guitars and came out to my car, the trunk was open and my board were gone. I had the tube screamer, the chorus, the tuner…I think the only pedal I didnt have from them was a phaser.

      I might order a new chorus or whatever, but I picked up my M13 yesterday and its pretty killer. I use my DD-20 and my GH-OD still, but everything else in the M13 is outstanding. only thing I dont like so far is the “tube screamer” drive is a little weak, but oh well. -1 effect from over 100 good ones.

  29. Collateral perfectly captured that downtown LA at night vibe. Tom Cruise was actually good in that movie. Have you seen the American?

    If it weren’t for Boss, we might not have a lot of great albums from Swervedriver, Lush, Slowdive, etc.

    Jimmy Page uses .009′s!

  30. well alot of boss pedals are digital so thats why they sound like such..but for the money there good (not that i would use them) haha but hey i have money to spend so i dont go fro boss but for people who dont they are def (good)

  31. Hearing with your ears and not your eyes should be the way.

    Who would have thought that Lincoln Brewster uses a Boss BD2 or OD3 in front of a Line 6 Pod X3 or Planetshakers Henry Seeley with Line 6 Pod XT or X3 now and the lead guitarist who uses the Line 6 Pod rack version or even Pete Townsend with a OD1. May have changed since.

    I don’t think you pick up this “digitally fake” when you hear them live or recorded.

  32. Brandon–it’s on a pedal by pedal basis with Boss, although I am surprised how many end up being decent. For what it’s worth, the Boss SD1 is almost the exact same circuit as the current reissue Ibanez TS9, except that the SD1 has the same JRC4558 chip that the original early 80′s TS9′s had. Might be worth looking into. Doesn’t have the cool green though. :D

    Dan–yes! Collateral is exactly what I feel when I’m in LA in the evening. And I didn’t see The American because it looked like Michael Clayton Part 2. Is it actually good, though? I’d be stoked to see it if it is.

    And great point on the Boss pedals!!

    Patrick–ya, in recent years some of the new versions have gone digital. The PH3 and the newer version TR2′s come to mind.

    JamesJ–for what it’s worth, I’m not a huge fan of Brewster’s or Planetshakers’ tone. I do like Pete Townshend though, and I can definitely figure an OD1 into his setup. That’s a good pedal. :)

    Also, I can introduce you to about 1 million people who think I’m wrong about Brewster’s tone. haha For what it’s worth, I do like the BD2, stock or otherwise. :) And I totally agree about listening with your ears. If my ears ever tell me to get a POD, I’ll be on it. Probably have to cancel the blog, hehe. ;)

    • Worth mentioning the TS9 uses symmetrical clipping where as the SD1 uses asymmetrical clipping.

      Studio rigs and live rigs tend to differ a lot and studio processing can do wonders for tone. That being said, I’m not a huge fan of the guys at Planetshakers’ tone. Jeffery Kunde’s and Chris Quilala’s tone were amazing when I saw them at Planetshakers. Almost made it worth going.

      Wow so much Planetshakers hate from me right now.

  33. I. I sure see a lot of Boss pedals out there, we all do. I think Boss does great delay, perfectly useful modulations and overdrives, and awful distortions and fuzz boxes.

    2. Norah Jones is fan-frickin-tastic.

    3. My Rondo pedalboard came apart on me. It can’t handle hard road use.

    4. I’m about to drop my Nova Delay for a Line 6 Echo Park, a Boss DD-5, and a DD-3. The Nova is a great unit, I just prefer stacking actual pedals.

  34. ya boss does have good delays…not my fav but def real nice! bettee than alot!
    hey guys im thinking about putting a eminence the tonker in my fender hot rod deluxe! give me your thought son it
    i thought about a governor or celestion v30
    but my local amp builder says who would use a tonker for what i play! i like ambient music and worship i want a nice sparkle but dont want it to flab out with crunch
    what ya guys thinking?

    • I think that the hot rod deluxe is a crazy loud amp that lacks character.

      yes, I own one. ugh.

      So, that said – whatever you do, please let me know how the sound changes with it! Now that they came out with the Hot Rod III series, selling it seems to be impossible. I’d love to get some good tone out of the amp.

      I play similar style, leading worship & ambiance. I bought the Hot Rod back in the emo days.

  35. I really, really want that pick! I’ve always wanted to try one, but couldn’t afford the expense. :-)

    I love this website by the way, I check it often while on my breaks at work.

  36. will do david!
    i have already modded the amp twice its done alot
    i did the reverb mod and i modded it so theres more control over the bass and middle controls its still not the best but hopefully after a new speaker and maybe some tubes it will be good

    • thanks man. i’ve heard of the “bias mod” as well – where you lower the bias of the amp in order to get a better sound. i’ll have to look into the reverb mod…and the mid and bass. honestly, I haven’t heard of someone doing that to the amp yet…so that’s new! i’m guessing the celestion would sound sweet. I play this vibra-champ at the house of prayer I lead at now…and it has an old leslie speaker in it…man, that sounds sweet, but not sure about how that would work in the 12″ spot in our hot rods…

      hot rod…even the name kinda makes me laugh. more like “hot mod me, or i’ll sound nutso”

  37. ya if you look them up theres alot of mods out there id say the best r the two i did and switching speakers and tubes..and ya i liek celestion but it seems the tonker will work good because it has the good chimmey sound but when ya need to crank out some rhythm it can do it…i was going to get a v30 but i think its to much low end and would chime right
    and yes timeline! im drooling over it..i hop its not over 500…id still get it but thats a little crazy

  38. If you guys are looking to improve the sound of a HRDx i would highly recommend getting a set of JJ 6v6s from Eurotube and throwing them in there. Normally you cant put 6V6s in that amp but the JJs are hardier and can take the higher plate dissipation. It brings the amp down to about 18 watts (depending on how its biased) and makes it noticeably smoother. I used them in my old HRDx and they sounded great!

  39. Well, this pick thing was a joke, because they’re 99 cents at Prussia Valley Dulcimers or elsewhere online. But anyone actually want one? :) If so, I’ll actually randomly choose a comment here.

  40. Just been investigating the Strymon site; new Timeline will be US$449. It will run on 9V (Hooray!) and is a much smaller form factor than the original Timeline; you HAVE to listen to the WhatsThatDudePlay’s YouTube video of the new Timeline (13 minutes of glorious, mouth-watering, I’d-sell-my-grandma-to-get-one, review!) The link is here:

    Later!

    p.s. Karl, that has GOT to be worth a pick in my general direction, right?!

  41. im okay witht hat price for the timeline =) and hopefully it doesnt need like 1000 ma to run though on 9vs like im getting a boomerang 3 its 9vs but need at least 700 ma i wanna power off a voodoo laps pp2+ what shud i do guys

  42. Well, the first draw has Nate at comment 32 winning the pick. :)

    And ya, I saw the first version of that Timeline video…when it was all distorty. Hard to tell from the vid on the tones, but the features are definitely there! :) Stoked for it. Thanks for the link!

    And the Boomerang can only be powered with its own adapter off the courtesy outlet on the PP2. The PP2 can’t power a 700ma pedal properly, unfortunately.

  43. My new guilty pleasure movie is ‘The Scorpion King’ w/”The Rock” in it. Specifically, the first 4 minutes of the movie. I’ve never seen it before and watched it on Netflix the other night and cry-laughed. If you are ever in late-night-so-everythings-funny mode, watch the first 4 minutes and take note of the following: Why in the galaxy is he carrying a boulder the size of a volkswagen up a wall??! How does “The Rock” shoot an arrow at someone and cause them to fly through a solid stone wall and out of the entire village? Bullet point: why then did the other two people shot with the same arrows not get launched out of the whole village? Where did all the women get their cosmetic surgery? How come “The Rock” has to punch a guy fifteen times in the face with his flexed arm? How come the guy with a noose around his neck bounces back up like the rope is made of elastic while “The Rock” delivers a final poignant one-liner?

    Serious, this movie plays out like it was scripted by drunken 8 yr old boys. And i love it. lol

    Sorry for the ultra random post… it was – at least initially – related to the Tremors comment. :)

  44. David–ya, I’m afraid so.

    Adam–haha Awesome. I will definitely check that out! The other day Machete was on and he swings out a window hanging from some guy’s large intestine. And I thought, ‘even if they are trying to make fun of themselves, this is failing.’ hehe

  45. Hate Pedaltrains?! Are you serious? I freakin’ love my Pedaltrain PT-2. It’s the best pedalboard I’ve ever had. I actually got an artist pricing endorsement with them a few months ago. I never wanna use another pedalboard again! (except maybe a bigger pedaltrain cause mine is totally full but I’m sure there are more pedals I’d like to have. Haha) what don’t you like about them?

  46. Ya, I think they’re a great idea for guitarists whose boards remain relatively the same. But for me, my board is completely changing constantly, and the constant zip-tying up of cables and power cables underneath the board and then cutting the zip ties and doing it all over again, and resnaking cables under and through the board, just wasn’t working for me. Plus, pedaltrain’s weren’t really built for bypass strips, it seems.

    Great boards, not for me. Congrats on the endorsement! Cheers.

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